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 Post subject: It's Official: Drum Corps = Marching Band
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:45 am 
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Minus the woodwinds for now....

http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_i ... fe0a8e7de1

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:15 pm 
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I have said this before but now I truely believe that DCI does not care about the paying fan, otherwise they would have listened to the 1,000's of people that have already voiced thier opinion about the rule changes.


Last edited by Old School on Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:53 pm 
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its going to come to pass where dci will feel like the vfw VERY SOON!! i can wait for the new drum corps org that comes up and take over.

maybe we can make the flag a big G with and anti symbol over it!!



F dci.. F hoppy..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:20 pm 
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OK...

One of three things will now happen when it comes to "the fans:"

1) So many people will be outraged and disappointed that attendance will absolutely PLUMMET over time, including this year and especially next year when the rule goes into effect. Regionals that used to draw close to or over 10,000 fans will reduce to maybe 4 or 5,000. Attendance at DCI Finals, the marquis event on the DCI calendar will drop to around 10,000 or below. This will be the most direct evidence that fans have had enough and the "slient majority" will have been correct all the time.

2) Attendance will remain essentially the same as what it is now. Regionals will be in the 8,000-12,000 range (depending on the arena), and Finals will be around 20-25,000 or so. This will be the most direct evidence that fans are more or less indifferent to the whole thing, and what was sold to us by the anti-amp crowd as them being the voice of the silent majority of fans who don't want this stuff in DCI was nothing more than hot air. In short, people don't care about this as much we've been told.

3) Attendance will actually grow at these regionals and at Finals. Perhaps the permanence of the finals and regional sites will have something to do with that, perhaps corps will figure out new and interesting ways to incorporate the new technology into what they do on the field, perhaps some corps might even manage to field a show with electronics that goes over incredibly well with the fans. Don't think it happen? Guess again.


Now someone can look at these options and probably come up with reasons why this won't happen or that will happen or whatever. Truth of the matter is, when multi-key brass was approved back in 1999, I heard all the same people say drum corps was dead. It won't survive another five years. This was the last straw. It's marching band now. Fans have had enough and nobody will go to these shows anymore.

And what happened? Relative to the championship site, Finals attendance pretty much stayed on par with what was expected, or in some cases actually grew. Madison attendance grew ever so slightly from 1999 to 2002 to 2006 (19K to 20K to 21K). Orlando attendance grew by around 6,000 fans from 1998 to 2003 (12K to 18K). Denver 2004 finals attendance was higher than any finals event in the previous ten years (over 22K), and the following two years in Foxboro and Madison were right around the same at slightly over 20K. Pasadena attendance this past summer was also well over 20K. Regionals have been drawing more fans than ever before (a regional record 16K in Atlanta in 2006, more than some DCI finals crowds!). How could this be if everyone was so outraged at drum corps playing "band instruments" and using amplification??

My opinion is that what people really want to see is great perfrormances. Excellence. The best performing groups competing with each other. Because at the end of the day, no matter how similar drum corps is to marching band, nothing on the band side of the coin can match the top DCI corps at their best. Nothing. That level of excellence will always be attractive to people, young and old. That's what keeps people coming back. And people like to pretend that band and corps are so vastly different, when in reality they really are two sides of the same exact coin. Always have been. Just as fans have become used to the drum corps paradigm of brass, percussion, color guard and amplification, they will get used to this. Or they won't. And people will withdraw their support once and for all and DCI really will cease to exist in any type of manner to which we have become accustomed. Either way, electronics are now a part of the drum corps paradigm.

All I can say is, speaking for myself, I am still very much looking forward to the 2008 DCI season and beyond.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:43 pm 
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I went to a few of the corps web sites and it doesn't seem as if the members are real happy about this either.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:03 pm 
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If they're so unhappy, they won't march in any of these DCI corps. Those corps will struggle to field a corps, and they will eventually flounder in competitive obscurity or fold altogether.

OR...

They'll still march, even if they aren't crazy about the rule change, and over time, they (like everyone else) will get used to the new drum corps paradigm. Some may even grow to accept and (gasp) even like the changes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Lucas - You make some good points. Personally, I think I'm more "married" to the the excellence of drum corps than I am the instrumentation. Although, there is no doubt I prefer the sounds of brass and percussion over marching bands with woodwinds, electric basses, etc. I think I came to this realization in the last year when I found that:

1) I actually enjoyed the use of voice in the Bluecoats program (although in most cases I still find voice in a field show to be cringeworthy) and,

2) When I went to the Indiana state marching band finals for the first time and found myself more let down by the level of performance than by the instrumentation. Although marching bands being typically around half woodwinds really rob them of their "punch" when they have a big hornline (or should I say windline) hit.

I'll continue going as long as the amount of enjoyment I'm getting is reasonable for the money I'm spending. In the last 4 years, it's typically been 2 to 4 corps that have used voice.... It would have been a shame if I had missed that epic show of Phantom Regiment's in '06 just because I thought the Cadet's Alice in Wonderland show was a bizarre mess.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Anyone know how to get a list of who voted for what?


The gloves are now off folks. The politically correct among you better get your Tums ready because getting ugly about this is the only method left. Booing corps? You really think things like this will solve that issue?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Get ugly. It just gives your cause LESS credibility to those who don't agree with you, and even alienates a significant portion of those who DO agree with you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:03 pm 
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lucas97 wrote:
My opinion is that what people really want to see is great perfrormances. Excellence. The best performing groups competing with each other. Because at the end of the day, no matter how similar drum corps is to marching band, nothing on the band side of the coin can match the top DCI corps at their best. Nothing. That level of excellence will always be attractive to people, young and old. That's what keeps people coming back. And people like to pretend that band and corps are so vastly different, when in reality they really are two sides of the same exact coin. Always have been.

All I can say is, speaking for myself, I am still very much looking forward to the 2008 DCI season and beyond.



I agree


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:14 pm 
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Huck Fopkins wrote:
Anyone know how to get a list of who voted for what?


The gloves are now off folks. The politically correct among you better get your Tums ready because getting ugly about this is the only method left. Booing corps? You really think things like this will solve that issue?



. . .and this will get you nowhere. Enjoy that bitter pill.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:18 pm 
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lucas97 wrote:
Get ugly. It just gives your cause LESS credibility to those who don't agree with you, and even alienates a significant portion of those who DO agree with you.


First, I never said I was suggesting anything. What I AM saying is that what happened in Pasadena was spontaneous, unprecedented, and rooted in the fans' displeasure in the direction that GH has been leading the activity. So from a fan standpoint, petitions haven't worked; fans walking out on shows hasn't worked; letters and phone calls to directors haven't worked; Cadets alumni telling Hopkins that they have had enough and are reducing or eliminating their financial support hasn't worked. So how long until another Pasadena happens? My guess it will sometime during the 2009 season.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:31 pm 
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TXMystreaux wrote:
Huck Fopkins wrote:
Anyone know how to get a list of who voted for what?


The gloves are now off folks. The politically correct among you better get your Tums ready because getting ugly about this is the only method left. Booing corps? You really think things like this will solve that issue?



. . .and this will get you nowhere. Enjoy that bitter pill.
Thanks TX! I appreciate you always being there to take the high road and point out the flaws of others.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Huck Fopkins wrote:
TXMystreaux wrote:
Huck Fopkins wrote:
Anyone know how to get a list of who voted for what?


The gloves are now off folks. The politically correct among you better get your Tums ready because getting ugly about this is the only method left. Booing corps? You really think things like this will solve that issue?



. . .and this will get you nowhere. Enjoy that bitter pill.
Thanks TX! I appreciate you always being there to take the high road and point out the flaws of others.


Let me guess. . .McGuyver?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Y'all are over reacting. I think there is nothing wrong with the rules changes. I've said all along that DCI needs to make changes in order to keep up with the times. George Hopkins realizes it, and obviously most of DCI realizes it too, otherwise the rule changes wouldn't have passed. You like to put all the blame on Hopkins, but he needed support in order to pass the rule changes, and he had overwhelming support. Instead of getting mad that the changes are happening and corps isn't going to be exactly how YOU experienced years ago, wait and give the changes some time to be utilized properly and implemented to possible great effect rather than passing judgment so soon. Amplification does not a marching band make, more judges does not a marching band make, water in the front ensemble does not a marching band make. In fact even electronic instruments does not a marching band make. The only thing that will ever make it marching band is the use of woodwinds, period, end of story.

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