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 Post subject: Joe the Scofflaw
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:56 am 
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"Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were highlighted by John McCain in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes.

According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.

Wurzelbacher was thrust into the national spotlight this week when he told Obama he worried that the Illinois senator's proposals to roll back Bush administration tax breaks for Americans earning more than $250,000 would prevent him from buying a plumbing business that would earn between $250,000 and $280,000 a year...

...On Oct. 12, as Obama was campaigning door-to-door in suburban Toledo, Wurzelbacher confronted the Democratic presidential nominee about his tax plan.

"Do you believe in the American dream?" Wurzelbacher asked before asking about the tax increase. "I'm being taxed more and more for fulfilling the American dream"...

...Under Obama's proposal, Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business and had to pay an extra 3 percentage points on the amount over $195,851, said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans.

"His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year,'' Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said.

It's far more likely that the $280,000 Wurzelbacher told Obama he'd earn would be in the form of gross receipts and not taxable income, said Steven Bankler, a certified public accountant in San Antonio, who counts plumbers and other trade professionals as his clients.

According to an analysis by Dun & Bradstreet on Wurzelbacher's employer, A. W. Newell Corp., the plumbing and heating contractor has annual sales of $510,000.

If Wurzelbacher bought the company, by the time he took proper business deductions, Bankler said, he'd be left with between $150,000 and $200,000 in taxable income and wouldn't be affected by Obama's proposed increase in the top rates.

Wurzelbacher might eventually have to pay more employment taxes under Obama's plan to impose a rate of between 2 percent and 4 percent on wages over $250,000, Bankler said, but Obama has said that change wouldn't take effect for a decade.

Wurzelbacher doesn't have a plumber's license and isn't registered as a plumber in Ohio, the Toledo Blade reported on its Web site today...

...Before living in Ohio, Wurzelbacher was a resident of Mesa, Arizona, in McCain's home state, according to property records.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:13 am 
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So, what does this have to do with Obama's answer of "spreading the wealth around"?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:59 am 
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LAMystreaux wrote:
So, what does this have to do with Obama's answer of "spreading the wealth around"?


Yeah, I bet Obama was hitting himself for saying that. Not smart on his part. And of course most see that as socialism. Too bad people don't realize we already have socialism in this country. In terms of tax plans, I'm not sure which one I prefer. Both are a joke in my view, yet I can see both sides. Should rich people be taxed due to their success? I don't think so. But should a millionare have a lower tax rate than a firefighter or teacher? In my view NO. Some people view Obama's plan as "class warfare". And others view the McCain/Bush tax plan as "social injustice". Both sides have good points. Warren Buffet made a good argument regarding this. He did a study and found that he only paid 17% on taxes from his income while his secretary paid a 30% rate on her income. And then he said he would pay anyone on the Forbes list $1 million to a charity of their choice if they could find a different result from their secretary. So far there have been no takers. Now, I've been blessed in my life to make a very good living. Do I mind going back the the Reagan tax rate so that teachers, firefighters, and police officers can have a cut? Actually, no I don't mind at all. But what I don't like is the idea of giving that money to people who don't even have to pay taxes in the first place. So I guess that's why neither tax plan is all that great.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:50 am 
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LAMystreaux wrote:
So, what does this have to do with Obama's answer of "spreading the wealth around"?

Was that the topic of this thread? No.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:14 pm 
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Actually, NBC has been working the tax evader attacks on Joe pretty heavily. Considering that I "owed" four grand to our buddies at the tax office which turned out to be a clerical error (BTW, the actual amount I owed was 42 bucks), it isn't a far stretch to think that this 1200 tax lien isn't what it seems to be, and it is hardly tax evasion. He's not a scofflaw.

Income taxes are the least of our worries. Take a look at how many hidden taxes we pay throughout the day. Any raise in taxes on the wealthy will be passed on to the little guy eventually. Redistribution of weath? More like redistribution of taxes! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:33 pm 
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What I see is a little different. A common ordinary person who wants to speak to a presidential candidate better have his personal affairs in order, have his tax consultant available, his attorney present, and his public affairs representative at the standby, as the press is going to be their to tear him apart......................Bill


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Blurae1 wrote:
What I see is a little different. A common ordinary person who wants to speak to a presidential candidate better have his personal affairs in order, have his tax consultant available, his attorney present, and his public affairs representative at the standby, as the press is going to be their to tear him apart......................Bill


Heh heh 8-) As usual, a deft deduction!


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 Post subject: And since we're talking taxes...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:04 pm 
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President Clinton's press release on December 28, 2000 lauded the efforts of Congress, his office, and a strong economy as the factors which allowed for the budget surplus and the debt reduction. Also, his predictions that the debt would be eliminated by 2009 were based upon continued economic prosperity.

Yet, Obama obfuscates the voter on the economic outlook by proposing funding for a trillion dollar health care plan with capital gains taxes that have been wiped out for years to come. His windfall tax proposal on companies like Exxon Mobil is absurdly naive. Who will ultimately pay for the tax? That's right; every person that fills their tank.

Clinton's budgetary success depended heavily on a strong economy which created a tax rich environment. Obama won't have that luxury, and that's why his economic plan will not work.


Last edited by cwbjr67 on Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
LAMystreaux wrote:
So, what does this have to do with Obama's answer of "spreading the wealth around"?

Was that the topic of this thread? No.


So what exactly is the point of this topic? Are you pointing out that we have people who evade taxes in the US? Everyone knows that. Or are we trying to forget what Obama said by talking about what kind of guy this plumber is?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:28 am 
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I apologize, I forgot you were from the south. I will try to explain, using small words...

The point of this topic can be inferred from paragraphs 1, 8, 10 and 11 in the original post.

"Joe the Plumber," who was quickly seized by the McCain campaign as a portrait of the financial suffering of the average American...

...isn't a plumber (I can change the spark plugs and air filter in my car; that doesn't make me an auto mechanic)

...is complaining about making $250,000 a year after he BUYS a business (How many people on here make that much? How many people on here could BUY a business, right now? Do you think that annual salary amount represents the "average" American, or is it more representative of the upper-middle and upper classes that the Republican party so blatantly caters to?)

...is completely misinformed about Obama's tax plan and doesn't understand the facts (as detailed in the post itself)

...is a tax cheat (clerical error or no, it's been almost two years: get on top of it, son!)

That's a nice portrait of America, wouldn't you say? How fitting the Republicans adopted it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:36 pm 
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From the south you say, is that like inferring someone needs small words because they are black, or maybe gay, or a woman or even Jewish?...............Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Despite this guy's personal story, he did reveal more relevant issues about Obama than he did about himself. He is not running for office. His personal issues do not have an effect on the Nation. His question is no less relevant no matter his circumstances.

Too bad the media aren't as diligent about Obama's background as they were on this guy. Oh wait, I forgot, Kevin said that media bias was officially disproved (by the media, no less). My bad...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Blurae1 wrote:
From the south you say, is that like inferring someone needs small words because they are black, or maybe gay, or a woman or even Jewish?...............Bill


This must be Kevin's way of "reaching across the aisle" so to speak. Nothing like good old freedom of speech and intolerance. Of course, that is only extended if you agree with them.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:59 pm 
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WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
Despite this guy's personal story, he did reveal more relevant issues about Obama than he did about himself. He is not running for office. His personal issues do not have an effect on the Nation. His question is no less relevant no matter his circumstances.

Too bad the media aren't as diligent about Obama's background as they were on this guy. Oh wait, I forgot, Kevin said that media bias was officially disproved (by the media, no less). My bad...


Exactly my point. The story here is the initial encounter this guy had with Obama, but of course let's not shed a bad light on The One. We must deflect the attention to something else, regardless of relevance to the big issue.

Wou, I iz ejimukaded. Sum dem werdz I jus uzed wuz moor den tree leterz.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:41 am 
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Hostrauser wrote:
...or is it more representative of the upper-middle and upper classes that the Republican party so blatantly caters to?)


According to the IRS, the Democrats represent the majority of the wealthiest districts in America. Ask Nancy Pelosi! :lol:

The real median income for Americans has risen once again from 49568 to 50233 dollars in the last year.

And, the poverty percentage rate is lower than nearly every year of the Clinton administration at 12.5%; however, I still find this amount to be disgraceful.

This recession is part of the economic cycle. The progress we've had in the last 16 years could not be sustained without a correction. There's been a recession about every seven to ten years since the 60s. It was bound to happen.


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