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 Post subject: Birth Certificate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:55 am 
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Birth Certificate

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:49 am 
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Interesting stuff. Nothing will come of it though. Many people outside of mainstream news have brought this up and you see the lack of coverage it has gotten. If untrue, you would think the story and how it had been proven untrue would be a major news story.

Obama has the MSM in his backpocket.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:18 am 
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Oh, that's hilarious. There is nothing funnier that watching some right-wing whackaloon get all worked up over a subject THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND!!!! Joan Swirsky needs to go to a community college and take a U.S. Government class.

Okay, here's the scoop: the Constitution specifies that a President must be a "natural-born" citizen. This has TWO meanings, and most people only remember the first one. A "natural-born" American citizen is someone who...
(1) Was born on U.S. soil
OR (and this is key)
(2) Was born to a natural-born U.S. citizen ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

You got that? It doesn't matter if Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, Kenya, or on Mars, if at least ONE of his parents was a natural-born U.S. citizen (which is the case), then he is automatically a natural-born U.S. citizen himself, and eligible to become President.

Examples...
(A) Two illegal immigrants sneak across the border and give birth to a baby in a San Diego hospital. That baby IS a natural-born U.S. citizen and CAN become President.

(B) Joe and Jane Twelvepack, both born and raised in Sioux Center, Iowa, are on a round the world trip when Jane goes into early labor and gives birth to a baby at a bus stop in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. That baby IS a natural-born U.S. citizen and CAN become President.

(C) Klaus and Katrina Malinowski, both born and raised in Warsaw, Poland, moved to the United States as children and later became U.S. citizens. Now married, they are visiting their families in Poland when Katrina gives birth to a baby. That baby IS NOT a natural-born citizen and CAN NOT become President.

I'm glad we cleared up this little misunderstanding.









(P.S.: You do realize that John McCain wasn't born in the United States, either, right? He was born in Panama.)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:37 am 
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Even the Snopes.com entry doesn't refute the claim that he was born in Kenya. It just dismisses Berg's lawsuit as one of several filed against candidates that were not successful. With that still hanging out there, how can Snopes claim it's a false rumor.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp


Kevin - The definition of "natural-born" has been left up the the individual states (even snopes got that right).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:46 am 
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Jazzman wrote:
Even the Snopes.com entry doesn't refute the claim that he was born in Kenya. It just dismisses Berg's lawsuit as one of several filed against candidates that were not successful. With that still hanging out there, how can Snopes claim it's a false rumor.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp


Kevin - The definition of "natural-born" has been left up the the individual states (even snopes got that right).


Are you trying to suggest that Kevin would bend the truth to make a point? I am :shock: :shock: :shock: shocked :!:


As far as snopes claiming it a false rumor and proceeding to call refutiate itself in the explanation, I sometimes wonder how truly unbiased snopes is.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:13 am 
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Jazzman wrote:
Even the Snopes.com entry doesn't refute the claim that he was born in Kenya. It just dismisses Berg's lawsuit as one of several filed against candidates that were not successful. With that still hanging out there, how can Snopes claim it's a false rumor.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp


Kevin - The definition of "natural-born" has been left up the the individual states (even snopes got that right).


I got this in the email yesterday concerning Snopes.com;



Check this out. Seems about right to be skeptical...with ACORN voter fraud, Wall St, Congessmen ethically compromised so oversight is zero--fat cat top 'so called' Exec's flushing their companies down the financial tubes; then getting $ millions in obscene payouts.....now rating companies/bonds etc whiel being paid big bucks bythse same entities---Moody's and S & P conflicts of interest exposed ....Poster child for all of this is 'It always Raines $ for him-red ink for taxpayers" ...he cooked books & made millions and then left Fannie Mae while it was under investigation for accounting irregularities".Franklin 'It Always Raines' had "taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.".....street whores & hookers make an honest living by comparison.. .

FW-Author anon.

I have suspected some problems with Snopes for some time now, but I have only caught them in half-truths.

I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a serious liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are hoaxes anymore.

A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> a few months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true. This website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the other side about McCain and Palin.

Anyway, just FYI I suggest that you consider yuor use of Sno pes.com anymore for consistently accurate and truthful fact checking, and make your friends aware of their political leanings as well.
Many people still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Malibu wrote:
Jazzman wrote:
Even the Snopes.com entry doesn't refute the claim that he was born in Kenya. It just dismisses Berg's lawsuit as one of several filed against candidates that were not successful. With that still hanging out there, how can Snopes claim it's a false rumor.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp


Kevin - The definition of "natural-born" has been left up the the individual states (even snopes got that right).


I got this in the email yesterday concerning Snopes.com;



Check this out. Seems about right to be skeptical...with ACORN voter fraud, Wall St, Congessmen ethically compromised so oversight is zero--fat cat top 'so called' Exec's flushing their companies down the financial tubes; then getting $ millions in obscene payouts.....now rating companies/bonds etc whiel being paid big bucks bythse same entities---Moody's and S & P conflicts of interest exposed ....Poster child for all of this is 'It always Raines $ for him-red ink for taxpayers" ...he cooked books & made millions and then left Fannie Mae while it was under investigation for accounting irregularities".Franklin 'It Always Raines' had "taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.".....street whores & hookers make an honest living by comparison.. .

FW-Author anon.

I have suspected some problems with Snopes for some time now, but I have only caught them in half-truths.

I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a serious liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are hoaxes anymore.

A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> a few months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true. This website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the other side about McCain and Palin.

Anyway, just FYI I suggest that you consider yuor use of Sno pes.com anymore for consistently accurate and truthful fact checking, and make your friends aware of their political leanings as well.
Many people still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself.


Well most conservatives I know go to truthorfiction.com for accurate information..And here's what they've had to say regarding your email:

Summary of the eRumor:
An eRumor about Snopes.com accusing them being owned by a flaming liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama.

The Truth:
In October, 2008, stories began circulating via forwarded emails that the popular urban legends site Snopes.com was owned by liberals and was "in the tank" for presidential candidate Barack Obama.

As with many forwarded emails, the criticism did not include any example of what the writer of the email claimed was the difference between what Snopes.com reported and what Barack Obama had actually said.


Snopes.com is an excellent site that has become an authoritative source for information about urban legends and forwarded emails. We regard David and Barbara Mikkelson, the founders and operators of Snopes.com, as colleagues and professional researchers who have earned a good reputation for what they do.

We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.

We've got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being "right wing whackos" as well as "liberals" and "communists." We've been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We've been called "Christian propagandists" as well as "atheists pretending to be neutral." We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who "really" owns us and what our "real" motives are.

The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don't like the truth you've reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.


That, in our view, is what is happening with Snopes.

The 2008 presidential campaign has been one of the most intense and unique in our nation's history and has prompted more political eRumors than any presidential campaign in our experience, especially about Barack Obama.

These anti-Snopes emails have probably been prompted by someone who does not like Barack Obama and does not like the fact that Snopes (or TruthOrFiction.com for that matter) has debunked some of the emails that are not true about him.


One of the versions of the eRumor mentions TruthOrFiction.com and recommends our site. We appreciate that, but we want to say for the record that we've had nothing to do with this eRumor about Snopes.com and we condemn it.

updated 10/21/08


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Jazzman wrote:
Even the Snopes.com entry doesn't refute the claim that he was born in Kenya.

Yes it does. Did you read it?

"The fact is, the qualifications listed in the example quoted above are moot because they refer to someone who was born outside the United States. Since Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, they do not apply to him."

Seems pretty clear to me.


Jazzman wrote:
Kevin - The definition of "natural-born" has been left up the the individual states (even snopes got that right).

Until the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868, yes. However, Section 8 of Article I confers on Congress the power to define rules of Naturalization and thus define what does and doesn't construe a "natural-born citizen."

But just think about your comment and it doesn't make sense. Why would the requirements for a universal FEDERAL office be left up to state-by-state interpretation? That would kind of be like saying each state gets to decide how many electoral votes they have in the election.


Malibu wrote:
I got this in the email yesterday concerning Snopes.com;

I have suspected some problems with Snopes for some time now, but I have only caught them in half-truths.

I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a serious liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are hoaxes anymore.

A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about snopes.com <http://snopes.com/> a few months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true. This website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the other side about McCain and Palin.

Anyway, just FYI I suggest that you consider yuor use of Sno pes.com anymore for consistently accurate and truthful fact checking, and make your friends aware of their political leanings as well.
Many people still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself.

The first thing my bs-meter looks for is a lack of specifics, and this email is about as vague as George Bush's exit strategy for Iraq.

"I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a serious liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. "

If dude "knew" this he probably would have come across the site owner's name... why not use it?

Actually, snopes.com has always been a joint operation by a married couple: David and Barbara Mikkelson.

"There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things."

Okay, what things? Tell me WHICH items on snopes.com are being misrepresented. Give me a YouTube link to determine whether or not THOSE videos are being misrepresented.

"This website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the other side about McCain and Palin."

Like? What, no examples again?

Anyway, all of these concerns are address on the Snopes FAQ page...

snopes wrote:
Q: How come you sometimes analyze the content of political pieces, but other times you only verify who wrote them?

A: In general, when a political piece is primarily an editorial or other expression of opinion (and is attributed to a well-known public figure or someone deemed to have particular expertise in the subject covered), we place it in our "Soapbox" section and attempt to verify only whether the attribution is correct (since opinions are not falsifiable, the attribution is the sole aspect of the piece that may be objectively determined as being true or false). When a political piece purports to offer facts, we place it in a relevant category and analyze the factual claims made within for veracity.

Q: How do I know the information you've presented is accurate?

A: We don't expect anyone to accept us as the ultimate authority on any topic, which is why our site's name indicates that it contains reference pages. Unlike the plethora of anonymous individuals who create and send the unsigned, unsourced e-mail messages that are forwarded all over the Internet [hey, like the one Malibu just posted! -H], we show our work. The research materials we've used in the preparation of any particular page are listed in the bibliography displayed at the bottom of that page so that readers who wish to verify the validity of our information may check those sources for themselves.

Q: Who pays you to maintain this site?

A: We have no sponsors, investors, or partners, nor do we have any affiliation or relationship (financial or otherwise) with any political party, religious group, business organization, or any other group or agency. We pay all the costs of producing and operating this web site ourselves and derive our income from the advertising revenues it provides.


Show me an email with a bibliography and I'll start believing it more than Snopes.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:21 pm 
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Oh, that's hilarious. There is nothing funnier that watching THIS left-wing whackaloon get all worked up over a subject HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND!!!! Kevin needs to go to a community college and take a U.S. Government class.

Hostrauser wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Oh, that's hilarious. There is nothing funnier that watching some right-wing whackaloon get all worked up over a subject THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND!!!! Joan Swirsky needs to go to a community college and take a U.S. Government class.

Okay, here's the scoop: the Constitution specifies that a President must be a "natural-born" citizen. This has TWO meanings, and most people only remember the first one. A "natural-born" American citizen is someone who...
(1) Was born on U.S. soil
OR (and this is key)
(2) Was born to a natural-born U.S. citizen ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

You got that? It doesn't matter if Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, Kenya, or on Mars, if at least ONE of his parents was a natural-born U.S. citizen (which is the case), then he is automatically a natural-born U.S. citizen himself, and eligible to become President.

Examples...
(A) Two illegal immigrants sneak across the border and give birth to a baby in a San Diego hospital. That baby IS a natural-born U.S. citizen and CAN become President.

(B) Joe and Jane Twelvepack, both born and raised in Sioux Center, Iowa, are on a round the world trip when Jane goes into early labor and gives birth to a baby at a bus stop in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. That baby IS a natural-born U.S. citizen and CAN become President.

(C) Klaus and Katrina Malinowski, both born and raised in Warsaw, Poland, moved to the United States as children and later became U.S. citizens. Now married, they are visiting their families in Poland when Katrina gives birth to a baby. That baby IS NOT a natural-born citizen and CAN NOT become President.

I'm glad we cleared up this little misunderstanding.


Holes in Kevin's statements...oh, where to begin.

You see, Kevin, we DO understand about natural-born status. You provided an excellent example with John McCain. Wonderful! The differences are multi-faceted;

Was Obama was born in Kenya AND was his father a U.S. citizen?

Did Obama's mother effectively lose her U.S citizenship when she moved to Indonesia and married an Indonesian citizen, Lolo Sotero?

Did Lolo Sotero adopt Obama?

The Nationality Act of 1940 states in Section 317(b). A minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of their custodial parent.

The laws in Indonesia at the time of Obama’s arrival did not allow dual citizenship. If an Indonesian citizen married a foreigner, as in this case, Obama’s mother was required to renounce her U.S. citizenship and was sponsored by her Indonesian spouse. During this time, Indonesia was a Police State. The public schools did not allow foreign students, only citizens were allowed to attend as Indonesia was under strict rule and decreed a number of restrictions; therefore, in order for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, which he did, he had to be a citizen of Indonesia, as the citizenship status of enrolled students was verified with Government records. Barrack Obama was registered as Barry Sotero at Fransiskus Assisi School, a public school, in Jakarta, Indonesia. This is where his religion was listed as Muslim on the school records.

Upon his return to Hawaii at age 10, Obama would have been required to file applications with the U. S. State Department and follow the legal procedures to become a naturalized citizen in the United States. If Obama and/or his family failed to follow these procedures, then Obama is an illegal alien. Obama would have had to received a Certification of Citizenship which would have made him a naturalized citizen; not a natural-born citizen despite the location of his birth or the citizenship of his parents.

In 1981, Obama traveled into Pakistan. At that time, Pakistan was on the State Department's list of banned travel for U.S citizens. However, he would have had little trouble traveling on an Indonesian visa. Circumstantial evidence, but certainly fits the scenario.

The bottom line is Obama has had plenty of chances to refute these claims by producing a real birth certificate, or by opening up his college records (there are those that believe he applied and was accepted to Columbia University as a citizen of Kenya). These records along with his medical records are not being released.

Why? Those who support Obama simply don't care so it isn't in his best interest to respond at this time. There is more here than any of us know, even you right-wing whackaloons (oh, by the way, the lawsuit claiming these things was filed by a liberal Democrat).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Oh XSpartaci, you are cute when you get mad, all frothed up into a Limbaughian fervor. You post is still applesauce, though, primarily because it's little more than a cut-and-paste job straight from Mr. Berg's sour grapes.

WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
Was Obama was born in Kenya

No, as his birth certificate shows. Spare me the weak argument that it's been "proven as a fraud" by self proclaimed experts looking at a scanned copy on the web and not the original document. The document has already be confirmed as authentic by the Hawaii Department of Health which, coincidentally, is the department responsible for keeping such records.

Also, the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser of August 13th, 1961, contains Barack Obama's birth announcement. Since I believe said announcements had to be submitted in writing, I'm not sure I can believe that a letter made it from Kenya to Hawaii in only a few days in the early 1960s.


WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
AND was his father a U.S. citizen?

No, he was a British citizen (at the time, Kenya was not independent). As has been mentioned, however, only one parent needs to be a U.S. citizen, and his mother most certainly was.


WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
Did Obama's mother effectively lose her U.S citizenship when she moved to Indonesia and married an Indonesian citizen, Lolo Sotero?

Well, for starters, your order is backwards. Obama's mother married Sotero in the United States and moved to Indonesia afterwards.

Secondly, whether she lost her citizenship or not is actually irrelevant. More on that in a moment.

WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
Did Lolo Sotero adopt Obama?

Not legally according to the U.S. Courts system. If he had, in accordance with the laws in Hawaii at the time, the birth certificate listing (Senator) Obama's father as "Barack Obama" would have been sealed from public record and a new birth certificate listing Sotero as his father would have been issued.


WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
The Nationality Act of 1940 states in Section 317(b). A minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of their custodial parent.

The Nationality Act of 1940 actually disproves Berg's claims, and negates everything in the two paragraphs you posted after this (which I have deleted for brevity).

Mr. Berg--and you, XSpartaci--probably should have read the ENTIRE Nationality Act.

Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317:
"From and after the effective date of this Act, a woman, who was a citizen of the United States at birth, and who has or is believed to have lost her United States citizenship solely by reason of her marriage prior to September 22, 1922, to an alien, and whose marital status with such alien has or shall have terminated, if no other nationality was acquired by affirmative act other than such marriage,shall, from and after the taking of the oath of allegiance prescribed by subsection (b) of section 335 of this Act, be deemed to be a citizen of the United States to the same extent as though her marriage to said alien had taken place on or after September 22, 1922.***"

See the bolded part? Ann Obama did not automatically lose her citizenship NOR her nationalization status by her marriage to Sotero.

But wait, there's more!! This is the best part...

Nationality Act of 1940, Section 401:
“A person who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by: (a) Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state, either upon his own application or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, however, That nationality not be lost as the result of the naturalization of a parent unless and until the child shall have attained the age of twenty-three years without acquiring permanent residence in the United States.

Nationality Act of 1940, Section 407:
“A person having American nationality, who is a minor and is residing in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who loses American nationality under section 404 of this Act, shall at the same time lose his American nationality if such minor has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, American nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of American nationality by the parent unless and until the child attains the age of twenty-three years without having acquired permanent residence in the United States.

SO LONG, AND THANKS FOR PLAYING!!

Vanna, what lovely parting gifts do we have for Mr. Berg and XSpartaci?

To bottom line it for you, EVEN IF Ann Obama lost her American citizenship, and EVEN IF Barack Obama became an Indonesian citizen as a minor in that country, he automatically regained his American nationality when his mother sent him back to Hawaii at the age of ten to be raised by his grandmother.

And therefore, any and all claims with regards to Indonesia are completely null and void.


WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
In 1981, Obama traveled into Pakistan. At that time, Pakistan was on the State Department's list of banned travel for U.S citizens.

Incorrect. Pakistan was actually a close ally of the U.S. at that time due to the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan. In 1981, the United States and Pakistan agreed on a $3.2 billion military and economic assistance program aimed at helping Pakistan deal with the heightened threat to security in the region and its economic development needs.

Citizens were recommended by the State Department to avoid the region due to the conflict in neighboring Afghanistan, but a ban on travel was never instituted.

WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
The bottom line is Obama has had plenty of chances to refute these claims by producing a real birth certificate

Which he did.

WE ARE SPARTACI wrote:
or by opening up his college records.

Why? Sarah Palin's haven't been released, either.

While I agree that presidential candidates owe it to the public to be reasonably transparent about their pasts, I do NOT feel that running for the presidency should entail completely stripping that person of their right to privacy.

Anyway, the bottom line is that facts talk, bullshit walks. Until any of these specious claims are proven in a court of law, I'm not going to give them any credibility. After all...

What's Your Evidence?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:20 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
(B) Joe and Jane Twelvepack, both born and raised in Sioux Center, Iowa, are on a round the world trip when Jane goes into early labor and gives birth to a baby at a bus stop in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. That baby IS a natural-born U.S. citizen and CAN become President.


Well, my question would be how does this apply to Barack in that his father was NOT a natural born U.S. citizen. If Barack was born in his father's home country of Kenya as some claim, how does it work being that only one parent was an U.S. citizen?

I am not claiming that Barack is not a citizen, but I am interested in your take on this situation.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
Nationality Act of 1940, Section 407:
“A person having American nationality, who is a minor and is residing in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who loses American nationality under section 404 of this Act, shall at the same time lose his American nationality if such minor has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, American nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of American nationality by the parent unless and until the child attains the age of twenty-three years without having acquired permanent residence in the United States.

SO LONG, AND THANKS FOR PLAYING!!



Of course, in your myopia, you missed the very clause that supports the opposition. It says, as quoted above, that the minor would be eligible to retain US citizenship IF said citizenship is lost only as a result of of the loss of nationality by the parent. The claim is that Barry Obama's US citizenship was surrendered as a separate act, possibly in order for him to attend public school or to be the same nationality as his parents.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:41 am 
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So if Obama was given grants for college based on his nationality, there should still be records of his birth in said institutions....right? That's of course thay have not been altered. :roll:

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