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 Post subject: Kentucky Safe from Terrorists?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:58 am 
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FRANKFORT, Ky. – A group of atheists filed a lawsuit Tuesday seeking to remove part of a state anti-terrorism law that requires Kentucky's Office of Homeland Security to acknowledge it can't keep the state safe without God's help.

American Atheists Inc. sued in state court over a 2002 law that stresses God's role in Kentucky's homeland security alongside the military, police agencies and health departments.

Of particular concern is a 2006 clause requiring the Office of Homeland Security to post a plaque that says the safety and security of the state "cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon almighty God" and to stress that fact through training and educational materials.

The plaque, posted at the Kentucky Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort, includes the Bible verse: "Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."

"It is one of the most egregiously and breathtakingly unconstitutional actions by a state legislature that I've ever seen," said Edwin F. Kagin, national legal director of Parsippany, N.J.-based American Atheists Inc. The group claims the law violates both the state and U.S. constitutions.

But Democratic state Rep. Tom Riner, a Baptist minister from Louisville, said he considers it vitally important to acknowledge God's role in protecting Kentucky and the nation.

"No government by itself can guarantee perfect security," Riner said. "There will always be this opposition to the acknowledgment of divine providence, but this is a foundational understanding of what America is."

Kentucky has been at the center of a series of legal battles involving religious issues in recent years, most involving displays of the Ten Commandments in public buildings. One case went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled in 2005 that such displays inside courthouses in two counties were unconstitutional.

Kentucky isn't the only state dealing with religious issues, but Ed Buckner, president of American Atheists, said it's alone in officially enlisting God in homeland security.

"I'm not aware of any other state or commonwealth that is attempting to dump their clear responsibility for protecting their citizens onto God or any other mythological creature," Buckner said.

State Rep. David Floyd, R-Bardstown, said the preamble to the Kentucky constitution references a people "grateful to almighty God," so he said he sees no constitutional violation in enlisting God in the state's homeland security efforts.

"God help us if we don't," he said.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:00 am 
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Why do the atheists care if they don't believe in Him anyway?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:44 am 
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LAMystreaux wrote:
Why do the atheists care if they don't believe in Him anyway?


Perhaps they would prefer the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security to focus their efforts on ways that would actually help protect them and other citizens of the state. If the current law in fact says that the office cannot keep the state without God's help then I think they have a valid argument. To me, I read that law as stating the office and all of it's staff and affiliates must believe in God and rely on God in order to protect the state from terrorist attacks. That violates the separation of church and state IMO. Those working for that office have every right to rely on God to protect them and guide them in the work that they do, but I do not think it is constitutional to say that God has to be a part of the process.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:47 am 
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Here we are again. Regardless of which side of the issue you're on it's moot. On the anti-terrorist checklist that's about 857630497th of the important things to worry about as far as an attack is concerned................Bill


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:15 pm 
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chadwick wrote:
LAMystreaux wrote:
Why do the atheists care if they don't believe in Him anyway?


Perhaps they would prefer the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security to focus their efforts on ways that would actually help protect them and other citizens of the state. If the current law in fact says that the office cannot keep the state without God's help then I think they have a valid argument. To me, I read that law as stating the office and all of it's staff and affiliates must believe in God and rely on God in order to protect the state from terrorist attacks. That violates the separation of church and state IMO. Those working for that office have every right to rely on God to protect them and guide them in the work that they do, but I do not think it is constitutional to say that God has to be a part of the process.


You may have a point in rights of the individual in the work place, but again, the wording of the constitution I am betting has nothing to do with how they actually go about protecting the state. It is more a recognition of their roots so to speak, and I am betting if the state as a whole were polled, the wording would stand.

It really shouldn't matter to an atheist since these silly christians are only relying on something that does not even exist.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Additional unconstitutional items for consideration for removal from Federally owned property-

Excerpts from the Declaration of Independence:

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.



Excerpt from the Gettysburg Address, as included in the National Park Service’ Lincoln Memorial

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It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

- Abraham Lincoln


Excerpt from the Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address, as included in the National Park Service’ Lincoln Memorial

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Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. 'Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.' If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether'.
With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan – to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.
- Abraham Lincoln


Inscribed on the east face of the Washington Monument (National Park Service) – Washington D.C.

Quote:
Laus Deo (Praise be to God – Latin)



Inscription at the Jefferson Memorial – Washington D.C.

Quote:
God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.

- Thomas Jefferson

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:54 am 
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What an outstanding point you made!!

Further, if we are waiting for the govt. to protect us don't hold your breath. The FBI busting 100 year old brothels in New Orleans as planes are crashing into the twin towers. Our borders leak like a sinking boat.

We could explain it from a secular view point, fate has not given us another attack or from a Christian viewpoint God has protected us without our help. Any way you look at it, we haven't had an attack.

Let's hope our luck holds or God sees fit to continue our reprieve because our govt. has chosen to do nothing................Bill


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