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 Post subject: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:35 am 
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The drama keeps unfolding in California. Some have accused Warren of apostasy. Considering his statements on Larry King, he sounds like he DID persuade his church members to vote Yes on Prop 8.

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California mega-church pastor and author of "The Purpose Driven Life" Rick Warren says he apologized to his homosexual friends for making comments in support of California's Proposition 8, and now claims he "never once even gave an endorsement" of the marriage amendment.

Monday night on CNN's Larry King Live, Pastor Rick Warren apologized for his support of Prop. 8, California's voter-approved marriage protection amendment, saying he has "never been and never will be" an "anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist."

"During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going," Warren told the CNN audience on Monday. "The week before the -- the vote, somebody in my church said, 'Pastor Rick, what -- what do you think about this?' And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is -- really should be defined, that that definition should be -- say between a man and a woman."

However, just two weeks before the November 4 Prop. 8 vote, Pastor Warren issued a clear endorsement of the marriage amendment while speaking to church members. "We support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8," he said.

The following is a complete transcript of Warren's comments just weeks before the Prop. 8 election:

"The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.

"Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear.

"This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat-out asked both of them: what is your definition of marriage? And they both said the same thing -- it is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.

"Now here's an interesting thing. There are about two percent of Americans [who] are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.

"This is not even just a Christian issue -- it's a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love, and procreation.

"So I urge you to support Proposition 8, and pass that word on. I'm going to be sending out a note to pastors on what I believe about this. But everybody knows what I believe about it. They heard me at the Civil Forum when I asked both Obama and McCain on their views."

During his CNN interview on Monday, Warren expressed regret for backing Prop. 8. "There were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends -- the leaders that I knew -- and actually apologized to them. That never got out," he admitted.

Additionally, Pastor Warren said he did not want to comment on or criticize the Iowa Supreme Court's decision last week to legalize same-sex "marriage" because it was "not his agenda."


from One News Now

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:59 am 
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You know, I read 40 Days Of Purpose as well as some of his other stuff, and have seen and read several things about his church in the news media/tv. I wanted to think his philosophy on church was a great idea but I always felt he was toeing the line between being the church God called us to be and blurring the line between right and wrong. Sadly, this move by him proves my gut instinct was right. In the end, yes the church should welcome any and all through its doors, but it should also call a spade a spade and spurn people toward the things of Christ. This diminishes his ministry greatly in my eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:30 am 
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There is no end to my hypocrasy. I believe they should be able to get married. But I also believe I should be able to believe what I believe even if I don't believe in it. Something like separation of church & state................Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:20 am 
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Good for him. But too bad he was as vocal as he was during the campaigning timeline. Interesting how he had said that every culture and every religion defines marriage as one man/one woman for 5,000 years - this to me is an over-generalization. Some cultures support marriage with multiple wives, some support pre-arranged marriages, some support marriage between people of the same race only, some support marriage of two people of the same religion only...etc...

It is an exciting time right now with the recent decisions in Iowa, Vermont and Washington D.C. It will be interesting to see when/if the Supreme Court steps in....I really go back and forth on whether or not they will anytime soon.

Obviously being a gay man I am in full support of marriage equality, but my anger that this isn't the case has grown as I begin to learn first hand some of the rights I am denied. My partner and I are looking to buy a home together and there is so much red tape to go through it is ridiculous. There is so much that we will have to do to be sure that we are both equal owners in the property...that if one of us died, the other would be the sole owner. While both of our families are fully supportive of our relationship, (thankfully), there are others that are not. And in some cases, those families would get the property and may not give it to the surviving partner.

I have also never felt discrimination personally until a couple weeks ago when we returned to Atlanta's airport in customs after a trip to Mexico. As we moved up to first in line to the counter, I stood beside my partner...just as every other couple/family was doing. The man behind the counter stopped checking the girl's passport and loudly asked that I move back and form a single line. I complied, and at first I felt I had overlooked some obvious sign that said stay in a single line; but I did not see one. There were hundreds of people in line and many were standing side-by-side. Married couples, families, etc... When it became our turn, we both walked up to the counter. The man looked at us and asked if we were traveling together, and we said yes. He asked if we were family and I said no, he is my partner. He went on to tell me to get back in line because if we are not related by blood or by marriage we have no right to come to the counter together nor can we stand beside each other - we must stay in a single file line. He was very vocal and brought a lot of attention to us. No, this isn't some major situation of discrimination, but it was very uncomfortable and frustrating.

Anyway...I've rambled. But it will be interesting to see what happens in California. I am hopeful that this will be overturned, and couples of the same sex can enjoy marriage and the rights that this offers.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Chris, I'm sorry to hear that you got treated that way at the airport. Customer sevice at airports is abysmal without adding insult to injury.

Bill really hit the nail on the bigger issue. How much does the establishment clause restrict the free speech of any worldview in the political process? Warren crossed the line in the presidential election. It's not a pastor's job to interview candidates even if their motives are virtuous. That's for the press. I do think a pastor should be able to advise his/her congregants on the issues of the day without reprisal. Religious leaders should be able to protest as well. James Madison, who penned the first draft of the Bill of Rights, contended that "to suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people is a chimerical idea. " John Adams wrote,"the only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a great Measure, that they have it now, they may change their Rulers, and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty."

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 Post subject: A strong reply
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:38 pm 
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The backlash has started...

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Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr., with the High Impact Leadership Coalition says he was very disappointed with Warren's statements on CNN.

"This man who's been called the next Billy Graham, who I really respect with all my heart and love what he's doing in Africa, is falling into a trap that is emblematic of the problem that the entire church is facing in this generation," Jackson states. "And that is that we love the applause of men more than we love the work of God and the gospel. Jesus...told us that we are to honor God first, and that we are not to fear men but we're to fear God."

Jackson argues that Warren was "aiding and abetting a deception around what kind of stance the Bible calls Christians to take" by telling Larry King that opposing the recent Iowa Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage was "not his agenda."

"He is the author of The Purpose Driven Life book," Jackson notes, "and therefore people are going to think, 'Well, this is not on my mission -- it's not on my purpose. I don't have to stand for truth.'

"Therefore, his defection -- in terms of his stance on this issue -- [and] his backsliding on this issue, becomes of tremendous damage to the strength of the church in this position."

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Warren Apologizes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:15 am 
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I'd like to know how this has effected his church and the attendance. I would not continue attending a church headed by a man who couldn't stand on biblical principles and lacked conviction. The church does not need to adopt a world view. . .I don't care what year it is or time we are in.

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