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 Post subject: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:59 pm 
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I don't want to sound like I'm down on the Blue Devils because I acknowledge their mechanics are spot on. My issue is they are, to me, about as entertaining as watching a cutaway view of an internal combustion engine. There are many other corps that do a good job and are very entertaining but the judges always mark them lower. I have attended drum corps events for more than forty years but I have never understood the judging process. However, I do think that the corps that used to win also were the corps that most pleased the crowds. In my view that is no longer the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:52 pm 
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First, welcome to Sound Machine!

I hear you. Blue Devils make me scratch my head, too. Trouble is, I don't know how to measure entertainment value. I guess it involves gauging if the production engages an audience, but I'm not sure how to measure THAT. With your background, I'm sure you remember SCV in '74. People weren't throwing babies at them during "Young People's Guide", but they certainly were engaged on an intellectual level.

Would you agree that the "applause meter" isn't a good idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Thanks Jim. I'm glad to have a venue in which I can express my views but more importantly maybe I can learn something.

I don't claim to have the solution but I agree that an applause meter isn't a good idea. Entertainment is a subjective matter, which would be difficult to give a value. I just feel bad for the corps that come with actual recognizable music, and remember there are people in the stands. To often I feel lost in the stands trying to figure out the interpretations and listening to what sounds like a traffic jam. I want to end this comment by saying I have the greatest amount of respect and appreciation for all of the corps members and staff, but to use your words, I am sometimes left scratching my head and asking myself, "What the heck did I just watch?" :?


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:01 am 
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I personally have given up on the current judging system. I am not sure if I am just not sophisticated enough musically? What do the judges see that I don't? I don't think an applause meter is a good idea but maybe there could be an award for favorite show of the night. There are a lot of great shows out there that I think are well designed and executed but don't get the higher scores for whatever the reasons.

I don't know how to fix it. I don't know if it can be fixed. I know I prefer to watching entertaining shows. I like music I recognize or just a catchy tune. If I find myself humming the music after the show then I know it was entertaining to me. Instead I go to the shows to support all the corps and root for my favorites and hope the judges agree with me. I know that just about every year I will enjoy Madison, Spirit, Surf and Troopers. They may not be my favorite shows of the year but I know I will enjoy them. I don't think there is a system out there that will please everyone. I do know that if the corps play catchy tunes that people know and are well executed than the usually gets more people in the stands in the long run. Just my 2 cents :)

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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:16 am 
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It is tough because while I don't enjoy the Blue Devils this year, I do see that they are performming at a high level and it would be odd to see this show placing say 5th or so just because the show doesn't make much sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:24 am 
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I would be interested in learning the difference between DCA sheets and DCI's. I was told once that the major difference is a bit more emphasis on GE, whatever that means. I know that DCA programs, by and large, come off as more accesible - and they do original music, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Welcome to Sound Machine!

I recently did my judging trials (in San Antonio) for DCI. I was doing GE Music and have to admit that my numbers were off a bit. However, I really appreciate what the Blue Devils are doing. They play great, march well, drum well, etc. I had them in first barely over Crown. But, now I actually like SCV the best. That show is cooking! Shows like SCV, Madison, Jersey Surf, Troopers, etc. are very fan friendly.

The GE Music caption takes in account the creative design of the show, how the performers are doing with it, if they are communicate it well, if the music is coordinated with the visual, and much more. Even though I like SCV the best, I would still consider both Crown and BD because of the design and how they meet the criteria.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:38 pm 
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That's good feedback Dennis. I'm glad to hear you give props to SCV, Jersey Surf, Madison, and the Troopers because I would have placed them behind Crown in first place at Allentown. I also liked Phantom Regiment. As I said in my previous comments, Blue Devils are spot on with their evolutions but I find them almost painful to watch and listen to. I certainly don't want to take away from the talent and enthusiasm of the Devils because they work very hard to achieve the accuracy they display. It's just as a spectator I feel left out because I can't get into what they do. This is just my opinion but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this thinking. Anyway, I don't plan to stop going to DCI Events, and I will avidly cheer for the corps that do what I like. I beat the dickens out of my "Soul Sticks" this season. I just realized I didn't mention the Cavs. Secret Society was fun to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:47 pm 
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I forgot to mention Cavies too. With 85 rookies, they are starting to handle the show.

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Dennis O. Eveland
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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Howdy!

I have felt for years that...
Regardless of how difficult it is to score... :mc2:
There should be some accounting...
For crowd reaction... :towel: / :well: / :pick: / :scream:


I don't give a fig...
How incredibly well a corps has performed... :shock: :drop: :shock2:
If the audience is sitting on its hands... :zzz: :well: :shs: :dno:
Or worse... :soap: :vomit: :crazy:
That corps should NOT be awarded top scores...
No way, no how, exclamation point! ! !

Monday night in Buffalo...
Maybe 60-70% of the crowd...
Slooowly stood up to applaud BD... :roll:
As they finished their show...
The rest didn't bother... :pick:

When SCV was announced in 4th...
The crowd booed... :shades:

What would the scores have been...
With crowd reaction factored in? ? ? :hum:


'Til later...

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Life is a test, then you die and find out whether you passed or failed.

No matter what you listen to, most people don't like your music...


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
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I guess that's why they have the Disney Award??

Definitely there should be an award for "Fan Favorite". SCV would probably win it this year.

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Dennis O. Eveland
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Cavalier Alumni
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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:57 pm 
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I think DCI could have a system where fans could text a vote for favorite. At Allentown the Cadets had a number you could text to win a t-shirt and it wouldn't allow us to enter more than once each hour. A vote for fan favorite could be limited to just one vote per competition. On nights when there is more than one competition happening there could be a different number for each one.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:26 pm 
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http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_i ... 68ce99d9c1

This was fron January of 2011 - I guess it fell on deaf ears.
I am so disgusted with the directon of drum corps that I have no interested in even going to see them in the theatre tonight, which is about 5 minutes from my home.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Interesting link. Cesario was discussing letting audience participation for scoring. I am not sure that thats a good idea. There already has been movement in increasing the emphasis on general effect and "visual proficiency". I don't know. I prefer judging marching and manuevering, hornline, and drums, with a smaller scoring category for colorguard - so I am way off of what we have today.


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 Post subject: Re: Doesn't Entertainment Count?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:56 am 
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Old School wrote:
http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=1afe6792-482b-46b1-801b-c468ce99d9c1

This was fron January of 2011 - I guess it fell on deaf ears.
I am so disgusted with the directon of drum corps that I have no interested in even going to see them in the theatre tonight, which is about 5 minutes from my home.



I understand some of your frustrations, but wow, you missed a good show!


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