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 Post subject: Scoreboard as of 7-31-05 (weekend action update)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:10 pm 
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Here are the top scores thus far this season for the DII/III corps. I've added the date of their high score in parentheses. Note: Several corps have already finished their seasons, two more had their debuts this past week(end).

Division II Corps
89.875 East Coast Jazz (30-Jul)
89.400 Spartans (30-Jul)
87.975 Blue Stars (30-Jul)
86.225 Fever (30-Jul)
84.400 Oregon Crusaders (30-Jul)
84.250 The Academy (9-Jul) - finished their season
84.200 Impulse (29-Jul)
83.050 Teal Sound (29-Jul)
82.100 Blue Devils B (17-Jul) - finished their season
79.400 Jersey Surf (23-Jul)
78.750 Vanguard Cadets (17-Jul) - finished their season
78.600 Memphis Sound (30-Jul)
62.350 Colt Cadets (29-Jul)

Division III Corps
82.725 Taipei Yuehfu (30-Jul)
78.225 Raiders (30-Jul)
77.475 Capital Sound (30-Jul)
76.000 Yamato (29-Jul) - debut
74.200 Revolution (30-Jul)
71.950 Allegiance Elite (29-Jul) - debut
71.775 Pride of the Lions (30-Jul)
71.000 Dutch Boy (29-Jul)
70.200 Mystikal (17-Jul) - finished their season
69.800 Citations (29-Jul)
68.800 Spokane Thunder (17-Jul) - finished their season
66.900 Lake Erie Regiment (30-Jul)
65.750 Les Stentors (23-Jul)
61.700 St. John's (29-Jul)
58.375 Racine Scouts (30-Jul)
54.200 Spirit of New Jersey (23-Jul)
52.750 Targets (22-Jul)
52.100 Cadets of NYC (23-Jul)
50.400 Blue Devils C (17-Jul)
50.250 Hawthorne Gold (9-Jul) - finished their season
48.750 7th Regiment (10-Jul)
40.150 Jester (17-Jul) - finished their season
36.150 Blue Saints (29-Jul)

Taipei Yuehfu takes over the top spot in Div III, while ECJ hangs on in Div II.

Allegiance Elite and Yamato join the fray!!

Please - If you get the chance to go to a DII/III show, go show your support for these hard working kids!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:09 pm 
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Are D2 and D3 corps judged on the same sheets? Are the scores comparable? Or do you have to make an "adjustment," in the same way that you do when comparing D2 and D1 scores?

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 Post subject: Re: Scoreboard as of 7-31-05 (weekend action update)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Jazzman wrote:
Here are the top scores thus far this season for the DII/III corps. I've added the date of their high score in parentheses. Note: Several corps have already finished their seasons, two more had their debuts this past week(end).

Division II Corps
89.875 East Coast Jazz (30-Jul)
89.400 Spartans (30-Jul)
87.975 Blue Stars (30-Jul)
86.225 Fever (30-Jul)
84.400 Oregon Crusaders (30-Jul)
84.250 The Academy (9-Jul) - finished their season
84.200 Impulse (29-Jul)
83.050 Teal Sound (29-Jul)
82.100 Blue Devils B (17-Jul) - finished their season
79.400 Jersey Surf (23-Jul)
78.750 Vanguard Cadets (17-Jul) - finished their season
78.600 Memphis Sound (30-Jul)
62.350 Colt Cadets (29-Jul)

Division III Corps
82.725 Taipei Yuehfu (30-Jul)
78.225 Raiders (30-Jul)
77.475 Capital Sound (30-Jul)
76.000 Yamato (29-Jul) - debut
74.200 Revolution (30-Jul)
71.950 Allegiance Elite (29-Jul) - debut
71.775 Pride of the Lions (30-Jul)
71.000 Dutch Boy (29-Jul)
70.200 Mystikal (17-Jul) - finished their season
69.800 Citations (29-Jul)
68.800 Spokane Thunder (17-Jul) - finished their season
66.900 Lake Erie Regiment (30-Jul)
65.750 Les Stentors (23-Jul)
61.700 St. John's (29-Jul)
58.375 Racine Scouts (30-Jul)
54.200 Spirit of New Jersey (23-Jul)
52.750 Targets (22-Jul)
52.100 Cadets of NYC (23-Jul)
50.400 Blue Devils C (17-Jul)
50.250 Hawthorne Gold (9-Jul) - finished their season
48.750 7th Regiment (10-Jul)
40.150 Jester (17-Jul) - finished their season
36.150 Blue Saints (29-Jul)

Taipei Yuehfu takes over the top spot in Div III, while ECJ hangs on in Div II.

Allegiance Elite and Yamato join the fray!!

Please - If you get the chance to go to a DII/III show, go show your support for these hard working kids!!



WOW, for the 1st time in a long time more than one corps is going to get knocked out in D2 and not go to finals


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:31 am 
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Howdy!

abalone wrote:
Are D2 and D3 corps judged on the same sheets? Are the scores comparable? Or do you have to make an "adjustment," in the same way that you do when comparing D2 and D1 scores?


Yes, yes, and no... :mrgreen:

'Til later... 8-)

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No matter what you listen to, most people don't like your music...


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 Post subject: Re: Scoreboard as of 7-31-05 (weekend action update)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:13 pm 
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SOMF69 wrote:
Jazzman wrote:
Here are the top scores thus far this season for the DII/III corps. I've added the date of their high score in parentheses. Note: Several corps have already finished their seasons, two more had their debuts this past week(end).

Division II Corps
89.875 East Coast Jazz (30-Jul)
89.400 Spartans (30-Jul)
87.975 Blue Stars (30-Jul)
86.225 Fever (30-Jul)
84.400 Oregon Crusaders (30-Jul)
84.250 The Academy (9-Jul) - finished their season
84.200 Impulse (29-Jul)
83.050 Teal Sound (29-Jul)
82.100 Blue Devils B (17-Jul) - finished their season
79.400 Jersey Surf (23-Jul)
78.750 Vanguard Cadets (17-Jul) - finished their season
78.600 Memphis Sound (30-Jul)
62.350 Colt Cadets (29-Jul)

Division III Corps
82.725 Taipei Yuehfu (30-Jul)
78.225 Raiders (30-Jul)
77.475 Capital Sound (30-Jul)
76.000 Yamato (29-Jul) - debut
74.200 Revolution (30-Jul)
71.950 Allegiance Elite (29-Jul) - debut
71.775 Pride of the Lions (30-Jul)
71.000 Dutch Boy (29-Jul)
70.200 Mystikal (17-Jul) - finished their season
69.800 Citations (29-Jul)
68.800 Spokane Thunder (17-Jul) - finished their season
66.900 Lake Erie Regiment (30-Jul)
65.750 Les Stentors (23-Jul)
61.700 St. John's (29-Jul)
58.375 Racine Scouts (30-Jul)
54.200 Spirit of New Jersey (23-Jul)
52.750 Targets (22-Jul)
52.100 Cadets of NYC (23-Jul)
50.400 Blue Devils C (17-Jul)
50.250 Hawthorne Gold (9-Jul) - finished their season
48.750 7th Regiment (10-Jul)
40.150 Jester (17-Jul) - finished their season
36.150 Blue Saints (29-Jul)

Taipei Yuehfu takes over the top spot in Div III, while ECJ hangs on in Div II.

Allegiance Elite and Yamato join the fray!!

Please - If you get the chance to go to a DII/III show, go show your support for these hard working kids!!



WOW, for the 1st time in a long time more than one corps is going to get knocked out in D2 and not go to finals


I'm not certain by what you mean when you asses more than one corps in DivII will get knocked out of Finals? I'm going to assume you mean "Grand Finals" when you say Finals because as of 2004 the rule for selecting finalists (formerly semifinalists) are the top 9 from each division (from 2002-2003 it was top 6 from each division and a remaining 5 from II/III combined, and before that there was no Semifinals and finalists were the top 7 DivIII and top 5 DivII). Since only 9 DivII corps are going to Nationals (Colt Cadets will not be in attendance), all of them will be "finalists". As for "grand finalists", it is still the top 3 from each division and a remaining 6 from II/III combined (the rule since 2002). Looking at these scores and the history (or lack thereof) of DivII corps being bumped out of Finals by a DivIII corps (every Finals/Grand Finals since 2002 has seen a maximum of 9 DivII corps except 2003 where Memphis Sound was bumped out by the Lehigh Valley Knights (and also Cadets of NYC and Raiders, except those two finished below LVK by a mere 0.05pts and 0.1pts respectively, falling just short of the last finalist spot)), it looks like Grand Finals will again be 9 DivII corps and 4 DivIII corps.

No, that is not a miscount. There will likely be 13 corps at Grand Finals this year. In the past (and this rule has not been readdressed to the best of my knowledge), an "International Corps" competing in the "International Division" (which exists to accommodate corps from other countries allowing them to compete in DCI-sanctioned competition without having to abide by DCI rules on size/instrumentation/age/etc.) cannot bump out a North American corps from Finals. This happened in 2002 when Taipei Yuehfu finsihed 3rd in DivIII, but because of this rule a 4th place Yamato was allowed to compete in Finals making it 9 DivII corps (Magic, Cap Reg, Mandies, SCVC, Spartans, Esperanza, Pats, ECJ, and Surf) and 4 DivIII corps (Revo, Blue Stars, Taipei Yuehfu, and Yamato). Given recent scoring, I imagine a similar scenario will happen this year with Grand Finalists being all 9 DivII corps, and the 4 top-scoring DivIII corps. The 5th place DivIII corps is nowhere near beating Memphis Sound out for that 13th finalist spot, and given how comparatively weak DivIII is this summer (but I guess that's to be expected when 7 of the top 9 corps fold or go DivII), I don't see it happening between now and Finals.

This is a great year for DivII, and I can't wait to see how everything pans out in Boston (and don't worry, those wildly-fluctuating II/III scores usually settle down by championships-week)!

P.S. Sor for all the additional information/comments in parentheticals. It does make it pretty hard to read, doesn't it?

P.P.S. I have pretty strong arguments about the post-2001 Finalists procedure and the silly, trivial, additional tweaks made for the 2004 and 2005 seasons, but I guess those would be better saved for elsewhere.

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Christopher Roland
Lehigh Valley Knights '02-'04
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:37 pm 
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Why aren't Blue Devils B going to finals? Surely that couldn't be because the Blue Devils organization doesn't have enough money.

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"Sounds like a bunch 'abalone' to me." --Brian T.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:41 pm 
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abalone wrote:
Why aren't Blue Devils B going to finals? Surely that couldn't be because the Blue Devils organization doesn't have enough money.


Actually, I believe it is because they don't have enough money (well, I bet they do have enough money, but a disproportionate amount of it is earmarked for the A-corps - the fairness of that is subject to debate). There was a great rumble over this on DCP about a year and a half ago. The off-season before last (leading up to the 2004 season culminating with Finals at Denver), the BD organisation held a meeting to discuss the future of the B-corps. The original plan was to fold the B-corps. There was much protest, so they settled on keeping the B-corps but canceling the 2nd tour to Denver. Finally the BD organisation backed off and allowed the B-corps to attend Finals as planned.

Excluding '97 when they attended Finals in Orlando, FL, BDB has only gone to Finals that have been fairly west by DCI-Final's standards (3 years in Denver, CO ('77, '78, '04), and 1 year in Dallas, TX ('91)). Total, they have gone to Finals 5 times, so I don't get why people were surprised they weren't attending this summer (let's think of a BDB appearance as a special treat, and not the regular treatment). They are not SCVC, who attempts the trip about every other year (though it wouldn't surprise me if that were scrapped in the near-future).

As for why there was talk on folding, two reasons seemed to surface. One was that they weren't certain how the B-corps fit into the organisation's mission which one could argue is satisfactorily met with the A-corps and C-corps. The other reason was a simple lack of funds. I'm more inclined to believe the latter after seeing how young the C-corps is and how old the A-corps is. The B-corps clearly has its niche, and is relevant to BD's "Commitment to Youth".

As for why there's not enough money to send two corps to finals, I completely believe it. BD runs three corps, an Open class winterguard, a wind symphony, and now BDEntertainment. Though running any of them I'm sure is not cheap, compared to sending a corps on a cross-country tour they must look like a petty change. I get the impression that BD is one of the best-run drum corps in DCI, and I imagine their finances are sound. Even though they may have a fair deal of money as an organisation, I imagine their priorities still rest with the A-corps, and if there's a decision between say, "Sending BDA to Europe," or "Sending BDB to Boston," the A-corps will take precedence. It costs a lot to send a corps on tour, and though BD may be financially strong, I do believe they cannot spend the money they do on the A-corps and also send BDB to the other coast for Finals.

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Lehigh Valley Knights '02-'04
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:31 pm 
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vaguardguy wrote:
abalone wrote:
Why aren't Blue Devils B going to finals? Surely that couldn't be because the Blue Devils organization doesn't have enough money.


Actually, I believe it is because they don't have enough money (well, I bet they do have enough money, but a disproportionate amount of it is earmarked for the A-corps - the fairness of that is subject to debate). There was a great rumble over this on DCP about a year and a half ago. The off-season before last (leading up to the 2004 season culminating with Finals at Denver), the BD organisation held a meeting to discuss the future of the B-corps. The original plan was to fold the B-corps. There was much protest, so they settled on keeping the B-corps but canceling the 2nd tour to Denver. Finally the BD organisation backed off and allowed the B-corps to attend Finals as planned.

Excluding '97 when they attended Finals in Orlando, FL, BDB has only gone to Finals that have been fairly west by DCI-Final's standards (3 years in Denver, CO ('77, '78, '04), and 1 year in Dallas, TX ('91)). Total, they have gone to Finals 5 times, so I don't get why people were surprised they weren't attending this summer (let's think of a BDB appearance as a special treat, and not the regular treatment). They are not SCVC, who attempts the trip about every other year (though it wouldn't surprise me if that were scrapped in the near-future).

As for why there was talk on folding, two reasons seemed to surface. One was that they weren't certain how the B-corps fit into the organisation's mission which one could argue is satisfactorily met with the A-corps and C-corps. The other reason was a simple lack of funds. I'm more inclined to believe the latter after seeing how young the C-corps is and how old the A-corps is. The B-corps clearly has its niche, and is relevant to BD's "Commitment to Youth".

As for why there's not enough money to send two corps to finals, I completely believe it. BD runs three corps, an Open class winterguard, a wind symphony, and now BDEntertainment. Though running any of them I'm sure is not cheap, compared to sending a corps on a cross-country tour they must look like a petty change. I get the impression that BD is one of the best-run drum corps in DCI, and I imagine their finances are sound. Even though they may have a fair deal of money as an organisation, I imagine their priorities still rest with the A-corps, and if there's a decision between say, "Sending BDA to Europe," or "Sending BDB to Boston," the A-corps will take precedence. It costs a lot to send a corps on tour, and though BD may be financially strong, I do believe they cannot spend the money they do on the A-corps and also send BDB to the other coast for Finals.



isnt it the same for SCVC?????

i thought i heard something like that in '02.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:03 pm 
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Thanks, vaguardguy, for that response. I guess I just naively assumed that that if the Blue Devils organization could provide enough funding to send A corps to Europe then B corps should also have plenty of money.

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