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 Post subject: Summer or 75 muchachos disqualifaction
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:00 pm 
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well it has been a long time since i thought alot about that summer , but a friend of mind told me that it is being talked about on line so i figutered i should get into this discussion. see i was there , you could say at the very center of the muchachos disqualifaction. there are many stories going around about what happened, one of them is that i was 26 or 27. fact is i was born on july 19 1953 so i was only three weeks past ,(21 days) .does that make it right? no! i did offer the powers in charge myself but i was told they had already( many weeks ago) made the choice. i still have a hard time thinking about it and realizing that it is still so talked about even to this day almost 32 years later. I do not point fingers at anyone but myself,........ every once in a while i do think about what might have been, and all the lives i changed forever. if i could go back and relive that day over ,...... but i guess we all have things in our past that will be between us ang God. there is more to this story then i could write tonight, maybe someday i can say what i know happened and set the record straight. mike


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 Post subject: Re: Summer or 75 muchachos disqualifaction
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:21 am 
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drumline69-75 wrote:
fact is i was born on july 19 1953 so i was only three weeks past ,(21 days) .does that make it right? no! i did offer the powers in charge myself but i was told they had already( many weeks ago) made the choice.

By "they" I assume you mean the Muchachos leadership staff. You cannot take full blame if they knew and were complicit. Regardless, as you say, it doesn't make it right. As for what might have been, there is more to participating in drum corps than winning championships. And other than pride in winning, what really would change for those involved? The real pride was in being a member of the Muchachos!! I wish you peace in this matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:11 pm 
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You were neither the 1st, nor the last person over the age of 21 to march in the finals of DCI..................Bill


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:39 am 
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Blurae1 wrote:
You were neither the 1st, nor the last person over the age of 21 to march in the finals of DCI..................Bill


I disagree. FINALS? Now????
Nope, don't see it even having a whiff of possibility these days. Too much scrutiny.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:31 am 
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It was indeed unfortunate that it happened the way it did. I don't know if DCI was more vigilant that year in wanting to police the over-age situation. There were others that got away with it in prior years. Many of the all-time great "junior" corps in history had overage members, and were never caught.

Horn soloist extraordinaire Jim Centorino, who played most of the Boston Crusaders solos in the late '60s came out and admitted he was overage in his latter years with the Crusaders. The judges would look at him with suspicion, but nothing ever happened. He even disguised his appearance. Boston, like the Muchachos was a top corps in those years.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 am 
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jazzer wrote:
Blurae1 wrote:
You were neither the 1st, nor the last person over the age of 21 to march in the finals of DCI..................Bill


I disagree. FINALS? Now????
Nope, don't see it even having a whiff of possibility these days. Too much scrutiny.

I believe current DCI rules allow a performer to turn 22 during the course of the season. I could be wrong, but I thought that nowadays you just had to be 21 at the START of the season.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:31 am 
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Brian Tolzmann wrote:

Horn soloist extraordinaire Jim Centorino, who played most of the Boston Crusaders solos in the late '60s came out and admitted he was overage in his latter years with the Crusaders. The judges would look at him with suspicion, but nothing ever happened. He even disguised his appearance. Boston, like the Muchachos was a top corps in those years.


Whenever 27th and Boston were in the same show, Jim C. would stay in a bus as long as possible. George B. of 27th was always checking Boston out, looking for Jim. You're right Brian, disguises were used. Would have loved to witness those happenings.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:14 pm 
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I have this vision of Jim C. with the glasses and funny mustache...oh, wait a minute...I have the funny mustache!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Hostrauser wrote:
jazzer wrote:
Blurae1 wrote:
You were neither the 1st, nor the last person over the age of 21 to march in the finals of DCI..................Bill


I disagree. FINALS? Now????
Nope, don't see it even having a whiff of possibility these days. Too much scrutiny.

I believe current DCI rules allow a performer to turn 22 during the course of the season. I could be wrong, but I thought that nowadays you just had to be 21 at the START of the season.


My response was to his comment regarding overage. So I'll be very clear:
I don't believe there's any possibility of an overage performer in DCI Finals now.

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 Post subject: Highly doubtful............
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:21 pm 
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Actually, ever since the late 70's, DCI has required all corps to carry copies of the members birth certificates on tour, and at ANY TIME DCI can exercise the right to have a "suspicious" member pulled from the ranks until the corps director provides a copy of the legal birth certificate. This happened to me in Denver in 1981.......just before going on the field for retreat Gail came up to me and asked me to step out of ranks and just stand to the side for a few minutes. He explained what was happening and really, it wasn't a big deal. I was legal by the way - although that year I WAS the "old man" of the corps (the first person to turn 22 after DCI - 11 days after championships!!). I suppose it's POSSIBLE to do a good fake job on a birth certificate now, but DCI also wants to see birth certificates with the official stamp on them (like from county or state records offices) and WON'T accept things like driver's licenses as proof of your birth date. It's pretty tough nowadays to get away with something like that, and corps also do a decent job of policing themselves (this happened to SCV in 1989 - a drummer was discovered to be overage during the summer, but not by DCI - Gail found out and kicked him out of the corps IMMEDIATELY.....and as a result DCI did not hold the corps responsible).

Kevin (Hostrauser), you ARE correct - you can NOW be 22 and legally march finals.........AS LONG as you turn 22 DURING the summer season. I think the actual cutoff date is June 15....so if you turn 22 AFTER June 15 of your ageout year you can still march.

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 Post subject: Re: Summer or 75 muchachos disqualifaction
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:04 pm 
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drumline69-75 wrote:
well it has been a long time since i thought alot about that summer , but a friend of mind told me that it is being talked about on line so i figutered i should get into this discussion. see i was there , you could say at the very center of the muchachos disqualifaction. there are many stories going around about what happened, one of them is that i was 26 or 27. fact is i was born on july 19 1953 so i was only three weeks past ,(21 days) .does that make it right? no! i did offer the powers in charge myself but i was told they had already( many weeks ago) made the choice. i still have a hard time thinking about it and realizing that it is still so talked about even to this day almost 32 years later. I do not point fingers at anyone but myself,........ every once in a while i do think about what might have been, and all the lives i changed forever. if i could go back and relive that day over ,...... but i guess we all have things in our past that will be between us ang God. there is more to this story then i could write tonight, maybe someday i can say what i know happened and set the record straight. mike


Ladies and gentlemen, I smell a rat!

Each year the topic of the Muchachos rears its head, and a friend tells you the topic came again JUST NOW?!? And it hasn't come up on this board, but over at DCP.

Drumline69-75(with one post to your credit), you have some 'splanin' to do before I believe you're the center of the Muchachos controversy.

P.S. While we're at it, I dyed my hair and marched in the Blue Devils. I'm the guy who fracked so badly for them as the sop soloist.

Believe THAT!

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 Post subject: Re: Summer or 75 muchachos disqualifaction
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Jim Anello wrote:
drumline69-75 wrote:
well it has been a long time since i thought alot about that summer , but a friend of mind told me that it is being talked about on line so i figutered i should get into this discussion. see i was there , you could say at the very center of the muchachos disqualifaction. there are many stories going around about what happened, one of them is that i was 26 or 27. fact is i was born on july 19 1953 so i was only three weeks past ,(21 days) .does that make it right? no! i did offer the powers in charge myself but i was told they had already( many weeks ago) made the choice. i still have a hard time thinking about it and realizing that it is still so talked about even to this day almost 32 years later. I do not point fingers at anyone but myself,........ every once in a while i do think about what might have been, and all the lives i changed forever. if i could go back and relive that day over ,...... but i guess we all have things in our past that will be between us ang God. there is more to this story then i could write tonight, maybe someday i can say what i know happened and set the record straight. mike


Ladies and gentlemen, I smell a rat!

Each year the topic of the Muchachos rears its head, and a friend tells you the topic came again JUST NOW?!? And it hasn't come up on this board, but over at DCP.

Drumline69-75(with one post to your credit), you have some 'splanin' to do before I believe you're the center of the Muchachos controversy.

P.S. While we're at it, I dyed my hair and marched in the Blue Devils. I'm the guy who fracked so badly for them as the sop soloist.

Believe THAT!

Ding, ding, ding, ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! :clap:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:37 am 
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If you were born on July 19, 1953 then at DCI's 1975 you would have been 22 and not 21 as you say.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:08 am 
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According to the account written (by two members of the Muchachos) in volume two of the Drum Corps World History Book, it was indeed a member of the drumline that was "called out" in '75.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:47 am 
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TONY429 wrote:
If you were born on July 19, 1953 then at DCI's 1975 you would have been 22 and not 21 as you say.

:?: Read his post again. Three weeks = 21 DAYS

drumline69-75 wrote:
fact is i was born on july 19 1953 so i was only three weeks past ,(21 days)...

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