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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:08 pm 
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rysa4 wrote:
Mike wrote:
cavie95 wrote:
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Did I mention that the kids performed the hell out this @#$%& show? Can you tell that I am really pissed off that I have to be torn between hating the show and loving the performance? Why did The Cadets design team do this to us?


Why? Simple answer. Hopkins larger than life ego and the Cadets Borg staff. They think they can do no wrong and don't listen to public opinion.


Nooooo.....the corps creative team designs a show they think will be good for the members and audience. This show fits the bill very well. Even in early July the narration was pretty well integrated into the show. From reading here and DCP it's been tightened up and is even better now.

You may not care for it, but from reading reviews and seeing them early season it appears that lots of folks do like them, narration and all.

Mike


As a former Cadet, I can say with certainty that the narration was a mistake, and can also tell I think the staff knows it but there isnt anything to do at this point. technically and musically they have the best corps and pretty darn good color guard to boot. Second place isnt close but because of the narration no one really wants to give the win to the Cadets as this type of thing really shouldnt be rewarded, as it isn't drum corps, appropriate, desirable, interesting, innovative, or good.

The fact that the Blue Devils, with ( apparently) clear weaknesses by consistent report, discussion, and caption result, are basically tied with a technically superior and higher executing corps speaks volumes on what both people in the stands and the judges really think.

The moments are great in the Cadets show; the overall theme is not overall at all; its simply non-cohesive excellence that can't be focused on or appreciated or enjoyed for any significant length of time because of " I was a geek-dork until I picked up my trumpet." UGH!!!

Next year I think will be a different story- I just don't know if anyone will return as far as members...anyone thought of that? How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....



Hmmm, my impression was that the kids loved the show. If this were a year ago, this might make sense, but I don't think it is the case with this corps.

What's not to like about playing charts like Shades, Symphonic Movement, marching a kick butt drill and winning shows?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:11 pm 
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rysa4 wrote:
...How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....

Which is the saddest part of it all, especially for the age-outs. HOWEVER, they also need to take accountability for knowing to an extent what they were getting into.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:11 pm 
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xsabers wrote:
rysa4 wrote:
...How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....

Which is the saddest part of it all, especially for the age-outs. HOWEVER, they also need to take accountability for knowing to an extent what they were getting into.



Again, I think we're making a huge assumption here. The kids knew the show would include narration. Those who are doing the narrating auditioned to narrate by choice. Its an awesome show aside from some of the narration. I would think this would be a great summer to be a Cadet. I am not sure what would lead you guys to think otherwise, aside from your own personal disdain for narration. That alone though should have nothing to do with how much or little the kids are enjoying their summer performing this show.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:19 pm 
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TXMystreaux wrote:
xsabers wrote:
rysa4 wrote:
...How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....

Which is the saddest part of it all, especially for the age-outs. HOWEVER, they also need to take accountability for knowing to an extent what they were getting into.



Again, I think we're making a huge assumption here. The kids knew the show would include narration. Those who are doing the narrating auditioned to narrate by choice. Its an awesome show aside from some of the narration. I would think this would be a great summer to be a Cadet. I am not sure what would lead you guys to think otherwise, aside from your own personal disdain for narration. That alone though should have nothing to do with how much or little the kids are enjoying their summer performing this show.


I liked last years show a lot. It was fun. Fun to watch and fun to perform. All I am going to say is this...I stood with them in Denver and listened to George, then the colorgaurd, then percussion, then spoke with folks. But all the time, I was watching the members of course. The eyes, the energy.

There is certainly some of my own opinion for sure, but I think I am right on in my assertion, or I wouldn't have said it. I have been doing this a very long time. Like I said, my real concern is not a year with a well executed sophisticated show with motivated members. Its who is really gonna want to be part of anything like this again ( regardless of whether we see it again like this); joining a corps, in a way, is a trust between staff and members. While I am not sure the Knights of the roundtable have been broken; I think its a setback.

Lots of talent; lots of work; lots of excellence. Awesome show.But not a lot of fun. Show me the fun. I don't see it. Not this year. Its not fun to watch or hear. Who is having a good time with this? If it isnt fun to watch and hear, do you think it is fun to perform?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:25 pm 
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TXMystreaux wrote:
[


Hmmm, my impression was that the kids loved the show.

What's not to like about winning shows?


Have you asked any of them? You might suprised at the answers you get. And when you are a Cadet, winning shows doesn't have as much meaning as you would think. It may be the same with other corps. I don't know that answer.

Its an adherence towards perfection. The question is...whos enjoying the ride? Crown and Bluecoats are. The Cadets are closer to perfection though. Who is better off?


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 Post subject: Don't forget
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:42 am 
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that they are "athletes of God." Cheese without flavor.

Ugghhh


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:28 am 
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rysa4 wrote:
TXMystreaux wrote:
[


Hmmm, my impression was that the kids loved the show.

What's not to like about winning shows?


Have you asked any of them? You might suprised at the answers you get. And when you are a Cadet, winning shows doesn't have as much meaning as you would think. It may be the same with other corps. I don't know that answer.

Its an adherence towards perfection. The question is...whos enjoying the ride? Crown and Bluecoats are. The Cadets are closer to perfection though. Who is better off?



Hopkins is pretty darn transparent, to a fault sometimes. He has stated in his blog at times how much fun the corps is, how much fun they are having, and even a day where the corps (the kids) thanked the staff for giving them this kind of show. So no I have not asked the kids personally, but his blog is pretty much an open door into the world and mind of the corps at times.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:37 am 
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TXMystreaux wrote:
rysa4 wrote:
TXMystreaux wrote:
[


Hmmm, my impression was that the kids loved the show.

What's not to like about winning shows?


Have you asked any of them? You might suprised at the answers you get. And when you are a Cadet, winning shows doesn't have as much meaning as you would think. It may be the same with other corps. I don't know that answer.

Its an adherence towards perfection. The question is...whos enjoying the ride? Crown and Bluecoats are. The Cadets are closer to perfection though. Who is better off?



Hopkins is pretty darn transparent, to a fault sometimes. He has stated in his blog at times how much fun the corps is, how much fun they are having, and even a day where the corps (the kids) thanked the staff for giving them this kind of show. So no I have not asked the kids personally, but his blog is pretty much an open door into the world and mind of the corps at times.


A public blog from a corps director is not exactly a true open door into the mind of the corps. Not even close. Its part hype, part cheer-leading etc. Nothing wrong with it...but not a true reflection. I guarantee you this type of narration won't be in next years show. Wanna bet on it? :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:06 am 
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rysa4 wrote:
TXMystreaux wrote:
rysa4 wrote:
TXMystreaux wrote:
[


Hmmm, my impression was that the kids loved the show.

What's not to like about winning shows?


Have you asked any of them? You might suprised at the answers you get. And when you are a Cadet, winning shows doesn't have as much meaning as you would think. It may be the same with other corps. I don't know that answer.

Its an adherence towards perfection. The question is...whos enjoying the ride? Crown and Bluecoats are. The Cadets are closer to perfection though. Who is better off?



Hopkins is pretty darn transparent, to a fault sometimes. He has stated in his blog at times how much fun the corps is, how much fun they are having, and even a day where the corps (the kids) thanked the staff for giving them this kind of show. So no I have not asked the kids personally, but his blog is pretty much an open door into the world and mind of the corps at times.


A public blog from a corps director is not exactly a true open door into the mind of the corps. Not even close. Its part hype, part cheer-leading etc. Nothing wrong with it...but not a true reflection. I guarantee you this type of narration won't be in next years show. Wanna bet on it? :)



I would agree with you that it won't. Hopkins has stated from the get-go this is an experiment. But I don't think any new direction next year should translate into this summer being a bomb for the kids.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:32 am 
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rysa4 wrote:

As a former Cadet, I can say with certainty that the narration was a mistake, and can also tell I think the staff knows it but there isnt anything to do at this point.


Is this your opinion, or is it something you really know? After the 05 and 06 years, this show is pretty much mainstream in design.

Quote:
technically and musically they have the best corps and pretty darn good color guard to boot. Second place isnt close but because of the narration no one really wants to give the win to the Cadets as this type of thing really shouldnt be rewarded, as it isn't drum corps, appropriate, desirable, interesting, innovative, or good.


Again, this appears to be primarily opinion. They are scoring well. whether they end up winning or not. And yes, their show IS drum corps, and it is "appropriate, desirable, interesting, innovative, and good."

Quote:
Next year I think will be a different story- I just don't know if anyone will return as far as members...anyone thought of that? How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....


Really? I think if I were a member in this show I'd be having a great time, as I did when I marched in controversial Cadet shows from 70-72.

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:35 am 
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rysa4 wrote:

Lots of talent; lots of work; lots of excellence. Awesome show.But not a lot of fun. Show me the fun. I don't see it. Not this year. Its not fun to watch or hear. Who is having a good time with this? If it isnt fun to watch and hear, do you think it is fun to perform?


I don't see how you can say that. This show is an amazing show...a LOT of fun to watch. I think it would be a gas to perform, and everything I've read on various sites goes along with that.

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:56 am 
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Mike wrote:
Really? I think if I were a member in this show I'd be having a great time, as I did when I marched in controversial Cadet shows from 70-72.

Mike


Did that include the show with the peace symbol? Actually, I thought about that show and wondered what those kids thought about it and whether it was anything like this show? Should we lump all controversial shows together? Does a political statement affect the performers in the same way that a deviation from drum corps norms (couldn't think of a more neutral phrase) affects them?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:41 pm 
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abalone wrote:

Did that include the show with the peace symbol? Actually, I thought about that show and wondered what those kids thought about it and whether it was anything like this show? Should we lump all controversial shows together? Does a political statement affect the performers in the same way that a deviation from drum corps norms (couldn't think of a more neutral phrase) affects them?


Yes, we did the Peace Sign all three years...in 70 to "White Rabbit", 71 to "Battle Hymn" as part of the Revolutionary War show (one of the shows castigated as the "Year Drum Corps Died" (Cavies and Scouts being the other themed shows), and 72 to "A Mighthy Fortress is Our God" and Mahler's 5th as part of our No More War show.

Here is a pic, from the 71 World Open prelims....screen capture from the DVD I have of the show...purchased at drumcorpsvideos.com (the Haas videos). I am the tenor closest to the midfield line.


Image


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Mike wrote:
rysa4 wrote:

As a former Cadet, I can say with certainty that the narration was a mistake, and can also tell I think the staff knows it but there isnt anything to do at this point.


Is this your opinion, or is it something you really know? After the 05 and 06 years, this show is pretty much mainstream in design.

Quote:
technically and musically they have the best corps and pretty darn good color guard to boot. Second place isnt close but because of the narration no one really wants to give the win to the Cadets as this type of thing really shouldnt be rewarded, as it isn't drum corps, appropriate, desirable, interesting, innovative, or good.


Again, this appears to be primarily opinion. They are scoring well. whether they end up winning or not. And yes, their show IS drum corps, and it is "appropriate, desirable, interesting, innovative, and good."

Quote:
Next year I think will be a different story- I just don't know if anyone will return as far as members...anyone thought of that? How enjoyable do you think this is for the members? Not as enjoyable as it is for the Bluecoats I can assure you....




Really? I think if I were a member in this show I'd be having a great time, as I did when I marched in controversial Cadet shows from 70-72.

Mike


hey Mike. You have a PM. Thank you for your input and pics from those controversial marching tympani days. :lol: very nice.


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